| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
kragzy
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 112
Location: Australia
|
 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:21 am Post subject: June 21 VH |
 |
|
| The shortest day on this side of the globe, and the longest puzzle, for me at least. Look carefully for hidden pairs in this messy puzzle. I missed one and wasted at least 30 minutes searching for 'advanced' tricks when 'simple' basics would have cleared so much dross. An XY wing does it eventually. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
sdq_pete
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 119
Location: Rotterdam, NL
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yes, I applied the XY-wing quite some way before finishing the basics. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gindaani
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 79
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 248 xy wing did it for me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
George Woods
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 304
Location: Dorset UK
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: Hard very hard! |
|
|
| I agree. Although the XY wing appeared after only 9 entries It was still Hard to finish. So much so I thought I must have missed something so went to DRAW/PLAY and put a 4 into r8c3 (thus simulating the effect of the XY wing) Sure enough GRADE now analysed the puzzle as HARD -after the so called "advanced move" doing this in DRAW/PLAY usually gives an easy or a medium graded residual! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gindaani
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 79
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
After the 248 xy wing, there is a naked quad and the puzzle unravels easily after that.
Here is the puzzle after basics.
| Code: |
+-------------------+--------------+---------------+
| 1245 13489 124589 | 48 6 1235 | 7 2348 238 |
| 6 7 2458 | 48 25 235 | 2348 1 9 |
| 124 1348 1248 | 7 12 9 | 5 2348 6 |
+-------------------+--------------+---------------+
| 45 48 6 | 1 3 7 | 28 9 258 |
| 3 19 19 | 25 8 25 | 6 7 4 |
| 7 2 58 | 6 9 4 | 1 358 358 |
+-------------------+--------------+---------------+
| 9 146 7 | 3 125 8 | 24 2456 125 |
| 8 5 124 | 29 7 126 | 2349 2346 123 |
| 12 16 3 | 259 4 1256 | 289 2568 7 |
+-------------------+--------------+---------------+
|
Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
For once, a puzzle worth the rating.
Keith |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cgordon
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 769
Location: ontario, canada
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I too found the xy wing but after trying all the VH weapons in my arsenal -I was stumped. I had to refer to this Forum for the solution. Even after reading there was a quad it still took me a long time to find it. This proves my theory (which I haven’t published yet) that VH techniques are just simple tools and that the real work is often in the basics. Thus a good Hard is often more challenging than a Very Hard. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gindaani
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 79
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree completely. On the average, I find hard puzzles more difficult than very hard puzzles. The VH puzzles involve more advanced techniques, but those techniques are generally easy to spot once you learn them. The H puzzles usually involve hidden pairs, hidden triplets, and quads which can be harder to spot.
This should be the new standard for a VH puzzle. It requires and advanced technique to get to a H puzzle.
I went back an did the VH puzzles from 2005 and 2006. I didn't use a single wing or "advanced" technique. They would all be called Hard (at best) now. Interesting how the definition of "Very Hard" evolves.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cgordon
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 769
Location: ontario, canada
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Interesting how the definition of "Very Hard" evolves. |
The wife and I were discussing the same thing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cgordon wrote: | | Quote: | | Interesting how the definition of "Very Hard" evolves. |
The wife and I were discussing the same thing. |
And, I hope, you were talking about Sudoku 
Yes, a few years ago the definition of "Very Hard" changed to include puzzles that can be solved with these advanced techniques: X-wing, XY-wing, and / or XYZ-wing.
To be sure, many use other techniques like Unique Rectangles, W-wings and M-wings, but these are not "required".
I find most of the VH puzzles pretty boring - do the easy basics and find one X/XY/XYZ-wing.
I find the "Hard" puzzles much more entertaining, particularly if attempted without pencil marks.
Keith |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gindaani
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 79
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| keith wrote: | | cgordon wrote: | | Quote: | | Interesting how the definition of "Very Hard" evolves. |
The wife and I were discussing the same thing. |
And, I hope, you were talking about Sudoku
|
ROFL!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mogulmeister
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1151
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
Keith,
I had no idea you were such a Finbarr Saunders! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
peterj
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 974
Location: London, UK
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mogulmeister wrote: |
I had no idea you were such a Finbarr Saunders! |
Do they get Viz in Michigan? Chortle Chortle.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Note that the joke is cgordon's, not mine ...
Keith |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mogulmeister
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1151
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ...but he was just talking about sudoku.......... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mogulmeister wrote: | | ...but he was just talking about sudoku.......... |
No, he was talking about the definition of "Very Hard". 
(Or was it naked pairs?)
Keith |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mogulmeister
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1151
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wendy W
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 144
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Geez, I take a break from Sudoku for a few weeks and look what happens to the Forum!
LOL!
Good puzzle too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
